Adults and stuffed animals: Can we bear to part?

I Couldn't Throw It Out, Season 2, Episode 24
Adults and Stuffed Animals: Can we bear to part?

Michael Small:
On this episode of I Couldn't Throw It Out, we want to test your memory. Try to think back to when you were really young and see if you remember, did you have a stuffed animal? Probably you did, right? And by any chance, do you still have it? Or do you have any memory of what happened to it? Because we're going to hear from full grown adults who did save their stuffed animals, but the question is, what should they do with them now?

And if you have yours, what should you do with it? To find out, keep listening.

[Song excerpt begins]

I couldn't throw it out
I had to scream and shout
Before I turn to dust
I've got to throw it out 

[Song excerpt ends]

Michael Small:
Hello everyone. This is an unusual sort of episode because my co-host Sally Libby could not be with us, which is sad. But the good news is there are two other people who will try to stand in for her. One of them I met about 66 years ago when I was born. She has come all the way from Calgary, Alberta to visit us in her original homeland, the United States of America. And her name is Debbie and she happens to be one of my two older sisters. Hello, Debbie.

Debbie Baylin:
Hello, Michael.

Michael Small:
Sally thanks you from far away for being her surrogate today.

Debbie Baylin:
Oh, it's not the same without Sally, but I'll do my best.

Michael Small:
OK, we appreciate it. And then another person whom we're always happy to see, my longtime friend, Paul Schrynemakers. Paul, hello.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Hi, Michael. Good to see you again. And hear you.

Michael Small:
Same here. Debbie, are you wondering how Paul and I know each other?

Debbie Baylin:
I'm totally wondering.

Michael Small:
If you insist. I'll reveal that Paul and I worked together in the late 90s on the website for Entertainment Weekly Magazine, where I was the editor and he was the design director.

Paul Schrynemakers:
I've always wanted to work for Michael again, so here I am. What are the salaries?

Michael Small:
Let's just say don't quit your day job. Anyway, when I got to Entertainment Weekly and met you, it was like the best first day of school. I was so glad that we'd be working together and I'm so glad to see you again. Especially since you're here for a very important reason. You brought a treasure that you saved for many decades and we're going to decide today if you should throw it out.

Paul Schrynemakers:
I don't know that I have agreed to throw it out yet, but I'm certainly willing to listen.

Michael Small:
Well, I know what that feels like because as you know, this whole thing got started because of a treasure that I've saved that is of the exact same type as yours. And I just happen to have it right here. Paul, can you describe it?

Paul Schrynemakers:
Yeah, that looks like something from a Ren and Stimpy cartoon. But it might have been before that time. I think it's a dog stuffed animal with a very floppy personality.

Michael Small:
Yes, highly used, barely holding together. Yes. Debbie, do you have any other words to describe it?

Debbie Baylin:
Let's just say it's seen better days. Definitely seen better days. Can I reveal the name? Because it's definitely ringing a bell.

Michael Small:
What is the name of this beautiful thing?

Debbie Baylin:
I would say that that is one official Wowie. No Kazowie, but that's Wowie.

Michael Small:
Yes. This is a dog named Wowie and I put a photo of this dog on Facebook.I asked if anyone else had saved their stuffed animals from their childhood, and a surprising number of people confessed that they did. We really kind of struck a chord or a nerve or something with this. I mean, when you think of stuffed animals, you usually think of kids, right? Yeah. But all these adults either held onto them or had strong memories of them. In our imagination, it's like these cuddly things are alive. They almost seem like real animals. And it's a very powerful bond. Debbie, I know you saw what everyone wrote on Facebook. Do you have any favorites that you want to share with us?

Debbie Baylin:
Absolutely. You want me to read a few of my favorites now?

Michael Small:
Sure, go for it.

Debbie Baylin:
OK. Matt saved a small stuffed dog called Fido. He wrote, he has lost his eyes given to me by my grandfather. It may even have been his. 

Michael Small:
That's one old Fido.

Debbie Baylin:
Then there was Sandy who wrote I still have my stuffed terrier with its homemade cord for a leash. It's almost as old as Michael Small. It's about 65 years old.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Whoa.

Debbie Baylin:
Kristen showed a photo of a doll named Muffin. I received her when I was two in 1963 for Christmas. My mom had to recreate faces for her out of iron patches whenever she got washed. This is the final face she's worn since I was young. Oh my gosh.

Michael Small:
I just want to point out that those were iron-on patches, not iron patches.

Debbie Baylin:
I got it. I remember doing that with my own daughter's doll. And Susan had an unusual story and photo to share. Let's see. She wrote, my mother was born and raised in mainland China where her father worked for Standard Oil. He brought Felix back from a business trip in England. Now he lives on my piano. And Judith wrote, I saved my 40 year old son's Ernie doll that my husband bought him while he was in the ICU. After being born five weeks early, I recently pulled it out for my granddaughter, but it smells too musty to pass down. Oh my gosh.

Michael Small:
And that's a problem we may have repeated on this particular podcast, although I hope I am not the one who smells that musty yet.

Paul Schrynemakers:
I haven't smelled my friend here yet, so I'm going to hold off a little longer.

Michael Small:
Yeah, and he's talking about a stuffed animal, not about me.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Yeah.

Debbie Baylin:
I have a suspicion that you were upset by a few of the comments.

Michael Small:
You mean from people who threw out their stuffed animals? Yes, I was upset by that and I'm going to share a couple, but I totally understand why they did it, but it hurts me to think of doing the same. So one of the people was David, who showed a photo of himself with what looked like a mouse, a dog, and a bear. And he wrote, I threw mine out when cleaning out my parents' house in 2009. That's a sad tale of loss. And then our friend Norma wrote, "I had Mr. Mouse until the mid 1980s. He was a very large mouse -like creature, similarly threadbare, I made a conscious decision to discard him, though my feelings were mixed." So thank you to Norma for sharing that very challenging decision with us, and to everyone for sharing your stories with us. If you're curious about seeing some of these animals that people saved, we posted photos of them on our website at throwitoutpodcast.com. I was blown away by the people who did not throw away their stuffed animals. Sally and I have a friend from high school who is also known as the Very Famous Nancy because I tell everybody about her all the time. Anyway, Nancy hates clutter, but when I asked her if she had saved anything from her childhood, I got a big surprise.

[Taped interview begins]

Michael Small:
Can you give us an example of anything you saved?

The Very Famous Nancy:
I have the stuffed dog that I was given when I was born. It's so old and ratty that I have to keep it in a plastic bag because it just sheds all over everything when I take it out.

Michael Small:
And what are you planning to do with it in the long run?

The Very Famous Nancy:
I'm planning to leave it in a drawer and then when I die my children will throw it away.

Michael Small:
Well, maybe they'll give it to one of your grandchildren.

The Very Famous Nancy:
Oh, I hope not. It's really unusable, but if I get ambitious I may just throw it away one of these days.

Michael Small:
We're doing a whole episode, I think, about my stuffed animal, Wowie.

The Very Famous Nancy:
Of course you are.

Michael Small:
We might have to get yours involved too.

The Very Famous Nancy:
It doesn't even have a name.

Michael Small:
It doesn't even have a name?

The Very Famous Nancy:
I had it when I was a newborn. But for some reason I have a picture of me with it. Can you describe it for us? It used to be pink and now it's sort of pale brown.

Michael Small:
Time has it's ways.

The Very Famous Nancy:
It's floppy. I think it's a dog. It could be a rabbit.

Michael Small:
And how long did you keep it on your bed? How old were you when you gave it up?

The Very Famous Nancy:
I have no idea. It left my life and came back into my life when my parents moved house when I was like 20. Oh. It wasn't really that important to me over the years.

Michael Small:
So you never lost it and threw a fit or anything like that?

The Very Famous Nancy:
No, no.

[End of taped interview]

Michael Small:
So Nancy has her stuffed animal just like me, which is the last thing I expected. And then there's our friend Daphne. Her stuffed animals have an amazing backstory. It involves Nazis and smuggled diamonds. And I could never do justice to this story. So I want to share about 15 minutes of my conversation with Daphne. Here's the story she told me about her two stuffed animals.

[Taped interview begins]

Daphne Kempner:
I happened to have my father's two beloved little teddy bears. My father has since passed away. He brought these bears over in September of 1939. So he just eeked his way out of Berlin, Germany, running from the Nazis. And he brought these bears in a little suitcase of their own that his mother had found somewhere. And she, unbeknownst to him, had put a fake bottom in this little suitcase, because he was only nine. So he was carrying something small. In the bottom, she put a diamond brooch.

Michael Small:
Whoa.

Daphne Kempner:
Which the bears then sat on top of in their little beds with their little knitted outfits my grandmother made for them. So my father unwittingly carried this valuable diamond brooch underneath his bears on the ship the Van Dame, which left from London and landed in New York. To make this full circle, the central diamond in that brooch was just taken out and used by my older son in an engagement ring for his girlfriend.

Michael Small:
They held on to the brooch.

Daphne Kempner:
Yep.

Michael Small:
They didn't have to sell it to eat.

Daphne Kempner:
No, they didn't. And it's interesting because my grandfather, Paul Kempner, married Marga Von Mendelssohn. She was Von Mendelssohn from the Moses and Felix Mendelssohn family in Berlin. And they lived at one point a very rarefied, wealthy life in a compound in Berlin with a bunch of cousins. In fact, my father was one of 20 first cousins. They all grew up together in a couple of big houses on the same giant piece of land in Berlin. And my uncle, my father's older brother, enlisted in the American army and served and came within a day of having to interrogate a first cousin of his who was a prisoner of war of the Americans. All the German cousins were drafted into the German army. So these cousins who grew up like brothers and sisters were on opposite sides of the war.

Michael Small:
That raises a few questions. I made an assumption that may be untrue that your father had to leave because of Jewish background.

Daphne Kempner:
That is correct. But how do I put this? My father's mother was the only Mendelssohn to marry a Jew. And the Mendelssohns themselves had been Christian for enough generations that Hitler didn't, the Nuremberg laws didn't apply to them. It's ironic, you know, this sort of famous Jewish name, von Mendelssohn, they were not at risk. But my grandmother married Paul Kempner, whose parents were both Jews. And so they had to flee. They were the only piece of this big, big family that had to leave.

Michael Small:
Was there some business that allowed them to prosper? Was it banking or something like that?

Daphne Kempner:
It was banking. It was the Mendelssohn private bank in Berlin. My father's father was a partner in the Mendelssohn Bank and the partners were given the choice by the Nazis to fire all their Jewish partners or dissolve. So they dissolved the bank and my grandfather had to leave. He actually came on a later ship because he was in Amsterdam trying to clean up a problem that had happened with the branch of the bank there, but he made it out.

Michael Small:
Your father was a little boy at the time.

Daphne Kempner:
He was the youngest of four children. The oldest was a sister who married an Englishman in 1938, I think, and she stayed in London during the war, during the Blitz. And then the next was the brother who served in the American army. And then another sister who's still alive. She's 99 and lives in Ithaca, New York. She's the only one still living. And then my father, and there was 10 years between oldest and youngest.

Michael Small:
Do you know anything about the origins of the bears?

Daphne Kempner:
Yes. So I'm assuming my father's parents gave him these bears and he referred to them as his "barchen". So in German, his little bears. This one is a little moth eaten, but he has shorts and a sweater. And this very sweet, you know, it's crocheted around the edge with a little bow. He has little... toenails. And he's two-toned. He's a light brown with some white streaks. And the other one, which is my personal favorite, is this little guy with missing an ear. The ear survived Nazi Germany and the transatlantic passage until our puppy about 10 years ago bit it off. But he has these little trousers on. And my father really loved these bears. I think it was hard on him, of course. It's hard on everybody. My grandparents moved into a third floor walk up in New York, in Manhattan, that my grandfather's brother had found for them. They'd come a couple of years before. And my father, it was thought best, was sent to live with cousins in Summit, New Jersey. So for fifth grade, he entered the Summit, New Jersey public schools. He didn't speak English. He was actually an enemy alien. You can imagine what his fifth grade classmates made of that. And he was absolutely miserable and he hung on to these bears for dear life. And he saw his parents, I think on the weekends or something. It was tough. He said it was the hardest year of his life.

Michael Small:
That's so strange that it would be harder to be here than to be there.

Daphne Kempner:
Well, it was hard to be there, too. He was in a school in Berlin that had a Nazi, literally a Nazi headmaster. And so it was increasingly untenable. But he was just so lonely here, yanked out of his country, his culture, his food, his language, you know, like any other refugee.

Michael Small:
Did he ever tell you how young he was when he got the bears?

Daphne Kempner:
No, he didn't. I know he'd had them for a long time and that he loved them. And I mean, they had clothes made for them and they had their own little suitcase. So that tells you something about how much his parents knew the bears meant to him because they didn't leave them behind. And they couldn't take much.

Michael Small:
Right.

Daphne Kempner:
It was a big shocker. You know, they'd lived in a enormous house in Berlin designed by Mies van der Rohe.

Michael Small:
A modern house.

Daphne Kempner:
Yes. The house was bombed. My father suspected that. But when he was in the army, I guess it would have been maybe 1950 or something. I don't actually know the years. He was in Berlin and he made a trip to his old address and the house was completely gone. But there was a circle of chestnut trees which had stood in their yard around a fountain that had four bronze frogs spitting into it. And the frogs were made by my grandmother's sister who was a sculptor. My father was there looking around, no house, feeling all the stuff he'd be feeling.
And he looked up at the sky and he happened to look up to the top of a chestnut tree and he saw this dark shape and he climbed the tree and it was a frog that had been blown by the bomb high up into the tree. And then he looked up higher and there was a second one. And somehow he got them down and he shipped them back and they're in my yard right now.

Michael Small:
Have you known this story your whole life?

Daphne Kempner:
I've known it my whole life because his bears were always around. They were in our house in New Jersey and then they were in their house in Vermont.

Michael Small:
Can you talk a little bit about how objects like this matter? Why did you end up getting them?

Daphne Kempner:
I've always been the most interested in family history. You don't want to see my basement. It has crates and crates and crates of letters in script that I can't even read from a great aunt who was Swiss who corresponded with her sisters and we went over for her funeral and they were going to throw all this stuff out and I thought you can't do that. That's why I love the name of your podcast because I am unable to throw stuff out, especially things like letters and photographs. And I have thought for years and years about writing a book about my family, my father's side, because I have so much material. I have a little notebook that one of my father's sisters kept in which she recorded every Sunday afternoon concert at this big house in Berlin, who came to play what they were like, what they played, the program. I can tell you that Einstein was there once and he was a terrible violinist, but really enthusiastic and tapped his foot loudly through the whole thing. You know, it was interesting crowd back in those days.

Michael Small:
Is this all from memories or did he bring this book over with him?

Daphne Kempner:
A lot of stuff was shipped over. So that's another interesting piece. The Nazis let my grandparents bring over things, but not money. So they lost all their assets in the bank, but they were allowed to bring over furniture and books, crates and crates of letters and photos, and little diaries like that one.

Michael Small:
Obviously, I have the same trouble with not wanting to throw out family history and things like that. Can you talk a bit about why did you want the bears?

Daphne Kempner:
I guess the simple reason is I loved my father and he loved the bears and it felt like a connection. I think I might have been maybe in college when he gave them to me, it might have been later. But I thought they were cute, sort of beat up little bears and hand knit
shorts. They don't take up much room. So I've always had them on a little shelf or on a chair or something. And he would always enjoy coming over and seeing them.

Michael Small:
Do you have children who will want them?

Daphne Kempner:
I suspect so. My husband and I are deep in that conversation right now, having lost all four of our parents in the last couple of years. They were all in their 90s. And we do not want to leave a lot of stuff that our kids, we have two sons, have to go through or feel burdened by or feel like they shouldn't throw out. But that's in direct conflict with my instincts to keep everything that's related to family. I think they'll want the bears because they're sweet and even their kids, if they have them, might enjoy them. I have other stuff that I'll have to figure out what to do with because I'm sure they won't want it.

Michael Small:
Can you talk a little bit about that other stuff? I have trouble myself explaining why I am the only one who held on to bits of family history.

Daphne Kempner:
Oh, that's interesting. You too.

Michael Small:
Yes. My siblings are not interested so much.

Daphne Kempner:
This is probably worth a beer sometime, you know, where we can dig in a little, because I don't really understand. It started a long time ago with me. The very first dream I remember as a little kid, so less than 10, was... we had a tire rope swing in our backyard in New Jersey. And in this dream, I'm curled up in it. And there are Nazi storm troopers pounding their way down our gravel driveway. And I'm thinking I have to just be completely silent and maybe they won't see me. My parents never talked about the Nazis. I didn't even know at that age that he'd been born in Germany, I don't think. So I don't know where that came from.

Michael Small:
Did you know that he was Jewish?

Daphne Kempner:
Well, that's also interesting. He wasn't. His father, Paul Kempner, had two Jewish parents. They baptized my grandfather and his brother when they were little as a pragmatic step towards protecting them. They remained Jews their whole life, but my grandfather and then my grandmother Mendelssohn raised their kids Christian because they both technically were. What's so interesting to me is that we went to a Presbyterian church in New Jersey growing up. My father was active. He was a deacon or an elder or something like that. And my mother sang in the choir. And as my father grew older, a significant portion of his friends were Jewish. And he had a bunch of rabbis at the end of his life who were his closest friends. And I think that was some organic, I don't know how to describe it, some organic connection that was at work.

Michael Small:
A return.

Daphne Kempner:
Yeah, I married a man who's Jewish. One of our sons converted to Judaism because I'm not. He felt he needed to. He's the one who just gave this diamond ring to his girlfriend, who is Jewish. So it's an interesting piece of family identity. The whole question of religion and how it played out in the family and whether anything's changed by a baptism or not.

Michael Small:
If there's anything you want to say about those bears, how you feel about them?

Daphne Kempner:
I guess I would add one other little thing. It doesn't surprise me that my father hung on to these guys because he always loved small manifestations of bigger things and bigger emotions. He always liked, I guess, to express a part of himself that was playful and sort of animalistic. He was a very squared away guy. He was a lawyer and he was German and he grew up in another era. So, especially when we were little, these little animals and things around and his bears were playful. And that was a window into him that we didn't have otherwise. We had it in abundance later in his life, but not when we were little.

Michael Small:
So the bear is your father's personality?

Daphne Kempner:
His spirit is in them, I think. Yeah.

Michael Small:
Thank you so much for sharing all this.

Daphne Kempner:
Likewise. Thank you for having me.

[End of taped interview]

Michael Small:
Now that is some story about stuffed animals. What did you think, Debbie?

Debbie Baylin:
I don't think anything we have will be as profound as that.

Michael Small:
Yeah, no way. I guess it'll put things in perspective as Paul and I try to decide what to do with the stuffed animals we saved. Paul, it is finally time for us to face our fate. Would you start by telling us the backstory of the old friend you brought along?

Paul Schrynemakers:
I would. Here he is.

Michael Small:
I guess we should talk a little bit about what he looks like.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Yeah, I'll describe him. He's a bear and he has his little mouth open. He's a Steiff bear, which I didn't know for a long time. He has a tag which is worn away, but I know it says it somewhere. And he has a little rattle in his paw, which was an endless fascination, I'm sure.

Michael Small:
And how old is he?

Paul Schrynemakers:
Of course, I don't remember when he came into my life because he's always been in my life. There is no beginning for this little guy. It's where we've been, you know, we've been on the whole life journey together.

Michael Small:
He's in very good shape.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Well, I think so too, but then I saw a real Steiff Bear and I realized that these patches of missing fur are not part of the design. He's a lot more worn than one that is in mint shape.

Michael Small:
How does he smell?

Paul Schrynemakers:
Oh, all right, here goes. He smells like... Like grandma's couch.

Michael Small:
Don't sit on him.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Yeah, he smells as expected. It doesn't have a spring smell. I'm inspecting him, of course, because he lives in this little plastic box in my closet. When I took him out for this podcast, I felt immediate empathy for this object. This is my friend, my friend Grizzy. And I was like, boy, you know, every time I see you in this plastic box, it's like I'm being cruel, but it's the best way to preserve this creature. But I do see lots of sewing marks, a repair job marks that my mother must have done. In fact, I believe one of these arms came off once, but she was a good seamstress because it's well preserved. He also has a little of his own silicon pack. So I'm trying to keep up the tradition. I don't know who's going to get it next. Yeah, so, and I named him Grizzy, which is the beginning of my history of bad names for pets and animals because I also had a dog when I was growing up that they told me to name and the dog was a mix between a husky and a collie breed. And so I called it Husky. You know, Grizzy is a grizzly bear and Husky was a part husky. So I'm obviously not good at this naming.

Michael Small:
Is Grizzy definitely a grizzly bear though?

Paul Schrynemakers:
Good question. Good question. I mean, I don't know any bears that have a blonde, more of a blondish fur to them, right?

Debbie Baylin:
Well, turn him around. I've had a fair bit of experience.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Oh.

Debbie Baylin:
Yeah. On the back. Is there a hump? I don't see a big hump happening.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Oh, well, I mean, I would say it's a it's a cub. It's a cub. So maybe the hump isn't grown yet.

Debbie Baylin:
OK.

Paul Schrynemakers:
But the coloring certainly is not a bear's maybe a dirty polar bear. This might be a dirty polar bear.

Michael Small:
But you know, where Debbie comes in Calgary, Alberta, she sees bears outside, grizzlies outside her window.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Oh, gosh.

Michael Small:
So we have a bear expert with us. And Debbie, is that a grizzly bear?

Debbie Baylin:
I would say negative.

Paul Schrynemakers:
All right. Then my naming even goes worse.

Debbie Baylin:
I think you're safe. I don't think you have to worry about that being a grizzly bear. No, no. In your closet.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Okay, good. Yeah, because they need to be fed quite often. And this little tag you see in the ear here?

Debbie Baylin:
Yes.

Paul Schrynemakers:
As a kid, I remember being troubled by that. Like, what's that? Like, why does this thing have something in its ear? And I think we, I watched like a Mutual of Oahu episode, perhaps, and then they showed, you know, how they tag animals and they were, oh, that's what happened. He got tagged, you know.

Debbie Baylin:
That's unique to your bear.

Paul Schrynemakers:
I know he's been tracked for 57 years. No microchip. There should be a microchip.

Michael Small:
Probably is.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Yeah.

Michael Small:
It's been so long since we've talked with each other that I don't even know. Are there offspring who might inherit this bear?

Paul Schrynemakers:
It'd be really strange to give this to a 20 year old, but there is a daughter who could receive it, and maybe it'll stay in the plastic box, perhaps for a young person to enjoy. As I say that, I think, I don't know. I don't know if I want a young person to handle this, right? Is this, in my mind, a museum piece? Maybe it's become too precious to give to a small child, and that's kind of sad, right? Because the whole magic of a stuffed animal is that they come to life in the mind of a child. So I have to think about that one. And then, of course, what is the real purpose here? Live in a box or live in a child's arms?

Michael Small:
That's a good question. And that raises a whole lot of issues. Like, for instance, I'm curious. So you did not share that with your daughter when she was young.

Paul Schrynemakers:
No, it was interesting. I felt like this was mine and she would get hers. I probably should talk to a therapist about that. But I was like, this kid's just going to slobber on everything. And, you know, so at that point, it had gotten to become a precious item, I guess, about, you know, sentimental value. But I do remember before my child was born, buying the official first stuffed animals for the child. It was a little duck. And this was a decision. This was like along the lines of other decisions, like setting up the room and all the things that you need to supply a newborn. So that was on the checklist. And I wonder if that duck is still around. I'm going to have to find out.

Michael Small:
So you don't know if the duck lasted?

Paul Schrynemakers:
When I grew up, this was it. This was my stuffed animal, right? There was no other stuffed animal. In the generation of my daughter, I've lost count on how many stuffed animals have come through her life. I'm talking garbage bags full, right? So at one point we made a rule, I made the rule, so I was a tough dad, but I said for every one we buy, two have to go. But then that kind of backfired because we'd go home and this is, you know, it's a six -year -old or four -year -old or, you know, I forget. And so I said, okay, which two, you know, here's the new one and which two do you want to see? And she would very carefully, very, very carefully look at them all. And then she'd take the two that had to leave, she'd kiss them goodbye and then hand them to me. As if she was giving up her children. I was being practical, you know.

Debbie Baylin:
In this whole conversation, what comes up for me is memories and that each one of those animals, just like your bear was for you, is part of your story. And we latch on to that and there's comfort in that continuum. And I wonder if, you know, even as adults, do we have to break away from that? That's going to be the big decision, isn't it? Do you have to throw it out? Is there harm that's happening now that that bear is in a box on top of your closet? If there are 10 of them, probably not so good, but I've seen that in children a lot. It's very tough for them to part with those animals.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Well, I did want to ask her why she liked stuffed animals so much. She was berserk-o about, you know, severely over the moon about stuffed animals. You have no idea. I mean, like, entire bed full of stuffed animals and probably a semester of college right there. I said, what's so special about these stuffed animals? Like, why are they so special? She says, and this is a young, I can't put an age to it, but it was not a teenager, a young person. And she said, they each have their own story.

Debbie Baylin:
There you go. Wow.

Paul Schrynemakers:
And I was like profoundly moved. By story she means backstory perhaps or even personalities that she gives them these personalities, right? They each had their own. That was another one where I had to back off a little bit from the cleanup patrol. Declutter.

Michael Small:
That's just amazing because it totally fits in with the whole purpose of this podcast, which is to tell the stories behind things so that the stories will remain even if the things have to go.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Oh, that's good. Yeah. She was ahead of the curve with that.

Michael Small:
But before we figure out what happens next for Grizzy, I want to tell you a little bit of the backstory of Wowie.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Oh, sure. I'm dying to know.

Michael Small:
First of all, I'm holding Wowie up again. Wowie had pompoms on his cheeks. These black eyes here, they had, I believe, red pupils with little yellow felt eyes. There were wires in Wowie's ears, and this was like sort of a silky fabric for the insides of the ears so you could bend the ears up and they would stay. Those are long gone. And then Wowie had a nice furry body that is not so furry anymore. And somebody has sewed up a hole in Wowie. That was this animal. We just want to tell you how I ended up getting Wowie. When I was born, the neighbors made me a little white lamb that I loved. And when my father saw it, the first thing he said was, Wowie. And so that was Wowie. And we're getting to a part about Debbie. It's no coincidence that she's here. She's very involved in this story. So for three years, I didn't let go of that little lamb until I was in a backpack or I was in some kind of a, my dad was carrying me as the family climbed Mount Washington. And we went into the Lake of the Clouds, I think it's called, and it was really, really foggy. And I think we went too far and we went over the wrong side and we had to turn around and go back. Anyway, somewhere in that near disaster was a real disaster, much worse than losing our lives on Mount Washington, which is that Wowie got lost. And Wowie did not make it back. And I think I probably screamed the whole way back from Mount Washington and we got home. And this is the part where poor Debbie comes into the story. Debbie, how did I get this, known as Wowie 2?

Debbie Baylin:
Well, apparently my parents came into my room and looked at my menagerie of stuffed animals and picked this one up and said, this is now going to be Wowie. Do I have that right, Michael? I do. I really don't remember the details of that. And off it went. It was one of my favorites. Definitely one of my faves.

Paul Schrynemakers:
I love that. You might be the best sister ever.

Debbie Baylin:
Hardly. He has another wonderful sister who would have done the same.

Michael Small:
This is interesting. I'm glad you brought that up because my other sister, one thing she and I have in common is that she has saved her teddy bear from back in the day.

Debbie Baylin:
Theodore.

Michael Small:
And she shared a picture of it also, which we'll put on the website. The reason why this sister is on is because the stuffed animal was stolen from this sister, not the other one. The other one had the sense to hold onto it because otherwise I'd have a bear now.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Michael, there's still time. You can still get another stuffed animal. Wowie3 is to be made. Wowie3 will be a bear.

Michael Small:
You hear that, Lynn? We're coming for the bear. But anyway, here's Wowie, which I could never let go of him. I also had him in boxes with a lot of other papers and stuff, which I feel guilty about. And now, Paul, this is where we get to the point of, let's make it clear, Paul is much younger than I am. I'm retired. He's still in the working world. But eventually, you're going to reach my age.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Thank you.

Michael Small:
And you're going to think about the stuff you have and what's going to happen to Grizzy.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Well, first, I'm going to hold him the way you're holding Wowie 2, which is with the utmost care and affection under your chin and beside your cheeks, which, you know, that's what you do when you want to throw something out, right? You give it a either this is a goodbye or I will never leave you moment. I haven't really thought too deeply about ever letting go of Grizzy. I can't imagine letting go of Grizzy without I think about it even more because I mean, why else would I stuff him in a plastic box on a shelf with a silicon pack in there? So I'm trying to preserve him, but I don't know what for. Maybe when it's my time to go, he goes with me. We just go together because we've been together since the beginning. In all seriousness, I think there are many other things I would let go of before this. Let me put it another way. I, as I get older, I value experiences over things, right? And I think that what I value about Grizzy was that he was as much an experience as a thing. So to have experienced the love and adoration and friendship and sibling -ness of a stuffed animal as a young, young child who doesn't know much about the world is an experience, right? To have, it's almost like your first buddy and the comfort they bring. So I think he's a keeper.

Debbie Baylin:
So there's the word. I was going to ask you both. When you're holding Grizzy and you're holding Wowie right now and clutching them, what do you feel? Do you feel anything?

Paul Schrynemakers:
I feel the words I'm saying are like being heard by Grizzy.

Debbie Baylin:
I love it.

Michael Small:
And by Wowie too.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Yeah, yeah. Wowie's like, listen to him. Listen to him.

Debbie Baylin:
The last word you used was comfort. And that's what comes up to me. And I think there's that symbolism when you clutch that tightly that maybe that's what you're feeling and something none of us want to abandon no matter how old we get.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Yeah, yeah, I really agree.

Michael Small:
But as Debbie read us earlier, our friend David, when he cleaned out his parents' house, he got rid of his. He clearly loved them. He showed us a picture of him hugging them, but he felt like, what am I going to do with these? I certainly have a box of things that I have said from our first season of the podcast that's going with me into the cremation. Wowie certainly belongs there. But we do have a little bit of guilt, both of us, cause while he will probably go back in a box like Grizzy, it'll be hard for them to breathe in those boxes, but still we're not going to throw them out.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Not now. Let's say it put that way. Not now. If we hold onto these, when our time comes, it may not be soon, but it's going to come. And somebody is going to just throw out Wowie then, but I guess if I'm not here, maybe Wowie doesn't want to exist anymore.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Hmm. Or does he exist?

Michael Small:
Ooh. Like, look at that. Is that a cute face or what? Even without eyes.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Now I'm thinking the Muppet Show might have had an influence on all this too, because I think Grizzy looks like a Muppet a little bit.

Michael Small:
Broadening it out to all the people who shared their animals, because this is a service show where we try to help others.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Oh, is it?

Michael Small:
I think what I got out of this, I was thinking, well, what do I do with Wowie? But like I thought maybe burying Wowie, but then I don't want to put Wowie in the dirt to rot. I'm going to be cremated. I thought of cremating Wowie. That seems like the best of the options.

Paul Schrynemakers:
That's not a bad one. Yeah.

Michael Small:
The trash is not. No, you cannot put this guy in the trash. So it seemed like cremation was the one option because, you know, like any other dog, which Wowie is, they die and you have to put them to rest. I'm going with cremation, either with me or without me.

Paul Schrynemakers:
I have a third option, I think, with this one, which is cold and heartless. Steiff is a German bear company. So I think there's a third option for Grizzy, which is to try his luck on eBay. And then maybe he goes to another life somewhere else, maybe reborn. Or his fate could be stuffed in a box again.

Michael Small:
When we decided to do this episode, I was going to call it the Wowie Project. And I was going to have everybody send in their stuffed animals and have them refurbished and give them to children who needed them.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Oh, that's good.

Michael Small:
But it was Debbie or Cindy or somebody made me realize that there could be germs.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Oh yeah, I know.

Michael Small:
You can't give it to somebody you don't know.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Yeah, you're right.

Michael Small:
That was a dead in the water idea. I was trying to see another life for Wowie. I'm afraid, like me, Wowie is only going to have one life.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Yeah. Live it up, Wowie.

Michael Small:
All of you out there who have your own Wowies or Grizzies or whatever they're called, Lamby, we want to say enjoy them to the end. I think our recommendation is no trash, no burying. You can cremate or you can just keep them and they go with you.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Yeah. You know, I have to thank you for inviting me because it has given me another experience with Grizzy. He came out of the box and became a minor celebrity here. It's nice to hold him again.

Michael Small:
Yeah.

Paul Schrynemakers:
It's just a nice feeling. And now it makes me feel like I'm like, wow, finding all the motivations behind what makes this special. It's nice.

Michael Small:
When I see Grizzy, I go, Wowie. But anyway, I want to ask one more question about this, which is did we learn from this podcast that maybe the boxes have to go and that Grizzy and Wowie come out of the box?

Paul Schrynemakers:
Oh, that's a good one.

Michael Small:
Or is it too embarrassing to have this animal around?

Paul Schrynemakers:
Not at this age.

Debbie Baylin:
Maybe it's that you visit them. Maybe it's that you are reminded that they're there and every so often you go in and open, take the box down and open it up.

Paul Schrynemakers:
I do like the idea of putting them on a bookshelf.

Michael Small:
Okay. We're sharing that. Just repeating for those others who saved --bookshelf, cremation or wait and go with you. That's it. Okay. Well, Paul, we're so grateful to you for being here. Do you have any last words for us?

Paul Schrynemakers:
I think I've said more than I ever thought I'd say about a stuffed animal. And so I'm very thankful again for revisiting the meaning behind Grizzy. And he thanks you too.

Michael Small:
Thank you, Grizzy.

Paul Schrynemakers:
It's not often he gets out.

Michael Small:
From Wowie to Grizy, hail. And I hope many of our listeners will be inspired by Paul Schrynemakers and Daphne and the Very Famous Nancy. So you'll want to tell us all about your favorite stuffed animal. You can send us a message with or without a photo on Instagram @throwitoutpod. That's throwitoutpod. We'll compile as many as we can and share them with all our friends on Instagram. And if you are someone who listens to Apple podcasts and if you want to honor the spirit of Grizzy and Wowie, we'd be so grateful if you'd give a star rating to I Couldn't Throw It Out, which would be a big help to us. That's it for now. And also remember, you'll be honoring Debbie, who had this animal stolen from her when she was a young, impressionable child. Debbie, thank you for Wowie. At long last, I'm thanking you.

Debbie Baylin:
My pleasure. Wasn't then, but it is now.

Michael Small:
And Paul, thank you for bringing Grizzy into our lives.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Thank you, Michael. This has been great.

Michael Small:
We look forward to Sally's return on our next episode. And right now, everyone has to listen to our excellent theme song by Don Rauf, Boots Kamp, and Jen Ayers. Start rockin' with Wowie and Grizzy. Bye, everybody.

Paul Schrynemakers:
Bye. 

[Theme song begins]

I Couldn't Throw It Out theme song
Performed by Don Rauf, Boots Kamp and Jen Ayers
Written by Don Rauf and Michael Small
Produced and arranged by Boots Kamp

Look up that stairway
To my big attic
Am I a hoarder
Or am I a fanatic?

Decades of stories
Memories stacked
There is a redolence
Of some irrelevant facts

Well, I couldn't throw it out
I had to scream and shout
It all seems so unjust
But still I know I must
Before I turn to dust
I've got to throw it out
Before I turn to dust
I've got to throw it out

Well I couldn't throw it out
Oh, I couldn't throw it out

I'll sort through my possessions
In these painful sessions
I guess this is what it's about
The poems, cards and papers
The moldy musty vapors
I just gotta sort it out

Well I couldn't throw it out
Well I couldn't throw it out
Oh, I couldn't throw it out
I couldn't throw it out

[Theme song ends]

END TRANSCRIPT